Transcript of Pelosi Interview on MSNBC's Live with Joy Reid

Contact: Speaker's Press Office,

202-226-7616

Joy Reid. Welcome back and, as promised, joining me now is the Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi. Speaker Pelosi, thank you so much for being here. We're glad that you made it.

Speaker Pelosi. My pleasure.

Joy Reid. I don't know how much of that last block you listened to, but there's a lot of outrage out there about the fact that the CARES Act, the Paycheck Protection Program –

Speaker Pelosi. Yeah.

Joy Reid. You know, Steve Mnuchin refused to say who got the money, now the information is trickling out – I don't know how people got around him – but you know, finding out that Kanye West got money, that Jared Kushner's company got money, that big-time pastors close to Donald Trump got money. I know your team put out a statement about your husband being a passive investor in a firm. How did that happen and how can it be prevented in the next program?

Speaker Pelosi. Well, first, let me just say that the issues that we have right now, much of it, will be ameliorated in The Heroes Act, and that's what we're pushing for now. When the CARES Act, which was, again, an initiative on the Republican side, on the Senate side and we weighed in to improve it. We turned it from a corporate-down, trickle-down bill to a bubble-up. Tens of millions of jobs have been saved through the PPP. Millions of loans have been made.

But the premise, it was supposed to be predicated on the idea that your business could not be sustained unless you had this assistance and you had to attest to that. We had a hard time getting information from the Treasury, as to who was getting one loan or another. Now, we've gotten some of it, as you say, trickling out.

But, what we saw in the first tranche was very bothersome to us. That's why Maxine Waters and Nydia Velázquez – Maxine Waters, Chair of the Financial Services Committee; Nydia Velázquez, Chair of the Small Businesses Committee – insisted in the next tranche that we would have a set aside of $60 billion for low – well, women-owned, minority-owned, veteran-owned, Native American-owned businesses. We still aren't pleased with the results of that. But it took us into a better direction. Nydia Velázquez, long-time Chair or Ranking Member of the Small Business Committee, has been insistent on us getting the facts so we can see where this, all of this, is.

And the – well, you asked about – I'll just go to my husband. Look, 20 years ago, he was an investor, small, under ten percent investor – has nothing to do with running the company, A, or, B, knowledge of it asking for a loan. But if that company could not attest that their sustainability wasn't – didn't necessitate that, they shouldn't have asked for the loan. But it's a hospitality industry and as you know, the hospitality industry has taken a very big hit in all of this.

Joy Reid. Yeah.

Sparker Pelosi. But these big – what I think – I think it's interesting to subject every dollar we spend to the most – the harshest scrutiny. But there is other big money that Mr. Mnuchin has that we don't know how he's allocating it and the rest of that. And that's where we want transparency, too. Big, I'm talking about big money. Eighty percent of these loans went to small businesses. There are big businesses that you point out that should not have gotten this and they should give it back if they cannot attest to the fact that the jobs would have been lost, their business would not have been sustained without this. But the bigger chunk of money is still sitting there with Secretary Mnuchin with no accountability at this time. And he promises he's going to give us the accountability. We're still waiting.

But as we do The Heroes Act, we can clean some of this up. There is collateral benefit, there is no question. We talk about collateral damage happening when good intentions go array. There is some collateral benefit, but it shouldn't be. And, again, if you cannot attest that this is about the sustainability of your business – and I have heard the Secretary say that, so I don't know why they did not implement that.

Joy Reid. Yeah.

Sparker Pelosi. But there is a lot of good that did come out of PPP. I'm not saying it would have been our choice to go down that path, but tens of millions of jobs have been saved and millions of loans have been made.

My problem with it is, if you want to know what my problem is with it, why are the banks making all this money on these loans?

Joy Reid. Right.

Sparker Pelosi. Or they're grants if you live up to the standard, the criteria that are set forth.

Joy Reid. Sure.

Sparker Pelosi. And that's why in our second bill, we had that – Nydia and Maxine, Madam Chair and Madam Chair insisted, in their wisdom from their committees, that there would be funding given to community development financial institutions who have knowledge of the community, of small business and underserved communities.

So, it is not just big banks giving it to their friends because that's who they know. But where that money goes and is lent from is as important as a consideration. And that has to be part of whatever we do, and we have to hold the Treasury Department accountable for that.

Joy Reid. Sure. And I want to play you, you know, Mitch McConnell, obviously negotiating with him can't be easy because he's made it very clear what his priorities are, judges and helping the very wealthy. Here he is talking about the House bill that you just talked about, that the House is putting together for the next round. Take a listen.

Leader Mitch McConnell. And they did come back a couple of days and throw together a $3 trillion unserious package that would have doubled what we have already done. I can tell you confidently it won't be $3 trillion. That bill is not going anywhere…I predict the next effort will be more contentious than the last one. We're four months closer to the election. There is a lot more elbowing going on.

Joy Reid. That man's wife took in a considerable PPP loan for his family. You also have the fact that he and Lindsey Graham and others are refusing to extend or resisting the idea of extending the plussed up Unemployment Insurance for the little guy, for the regular person that's unemployed. Can you negotiate with somebody like him or would the Democratic Caucus be better off holding a bill until after the election, depending on how the election goes?

Speaker Pelosi. Well, we can't hold the bill. We're going to have to insist. Moscow Mitch is too busy protecting the President from any statements that have been made about the President's all roads lead to Putin. Moscow Mitch, there you have it. He doesn't like it when I say that, but I'm saying it anyway.

Here's the thing, on June 30th, state and local governments across the country had to balance their budgets. We developed The Heroes Act, called, ‘Heroes' because that's who they pay, health care workers, transit workers, teachers, sanitation workers, food supplies and the rest. That's who they pay.

And that date has gone by, but we hope to make, in our bill, retroactive so that states – think of all the – and there are like a million public employees who have been fired because of the coronavirus. And this money, to the states and the localities, tribes and territories, this money, you go to Speaker.gov/HeroesAct and see any place you may have lived, gone to school, have friends and family and see how much money goes to them to do two things: offset any expenses they had from the coronavirus and secondly, make up for lost revenue because of all the shutdowns from the coronavirus.

Joy Reid. Yeah.

Speaker Pelosi. And then think of this, all that money, it's a lot of money, all that money is one-half of what the Republicans put in their tax scam in 2017, giving 83 percent of the benefits to the top one percent. And you know what? Adding $2 trillion to the debt, no stimulus for the economy.

So, let's understand who we're dealing with. For him to squawk about $600 when he's giving $2 trillion away, all that money is – I think it is just an excuse. They don't like Unemployment Insurance.

Okay, so I said 30th of June; on the 26th of July the unemployment checks will stop going out.

Joy Reid. Right. Yeah.

Speaker Pelosi. And we have to have this money by then. So, who is he going to take it from, the unemployment checks, the direct payments to people who need help, state and local governments, which hire our heroes, who meet the needs of the people?

Joy Reid. Yeah.

Speaker Pelosi. Who is he going to take it from so he can give it to the highest – top one percent again and again?

Joy Reid. It is quite a good question. Speaker Nancy Pelosi, we truly appreciate your time tonight. Thank you so much. Be well.

Speaker Pelosi. Thank you.