Transcript of Pelosi Appearance on BET News Special “American Injustice: The Fight for Police Reform” with Soledad O’Brien and Chair Karen Bass

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Soledad O'Brien. Good evening. Thank you for joining us.

The topic of tonight's show isn't new, but the growing sense of urgency to enact change is. For decades, Black and brown Americans have sounded the alarm about racially-biased policing, police brutality, misconduct and misuse of force. And a familiar pattern plays out again and again: a police officer kills an unarmed Black person; there are painful press conferences, memorial services; angry protestors take to the streets; hashtags are created; police defenders and civil rights activists argue on cable news; and the cycle is repeated year after year, yet nothing changes.

But the killing of George Floyd has sparked an unprecedented response. The largest mass protest in American history. Right now, people all across America and the world are demanding profound changes in how their communities are policed and in how officers are held accountable

Can this moment finally be the catalyst for reform? Tonight, I'll be speaking directly with Congressional leaders, members of law enforcement, activists and journalists about what it will finally take to enact meaningful police reform once and for all.

We want to begin our program with two powerful and pivotal voices in the fight to pass comprehensive police reform on Capitol Hill. Joining me now, the Speaker of the House of Representatives, Nancy Pelosi, and California Congresswoman Karen Bass; she is also the Chair of the Congressional Black Caucus.

It's nice to have you both with me. Let's list off – tick off – some of the elements from this legislation that you propose: the George Floyd Act. It would end qualified immunity, establish unified use of force policies, mandate data collection, ban chokeholds and no knock warrants.

It passed the House with three Republican supporters. Now, it goes to the Senate where Republicans are basically saying it's a nonstarter. So, Speaker Pelosi, if I may begin with you, where do you go from here if your Republican colleagues are saying no?

Speaker Pelosi. You mentioned some of the provisions of the bill. But, overarchingly, it's about accountability of policing and it's about transparency; two very distinct differences from what the Republicans in the Senate have put forward.

So, I would hope that they would work with the Senate Democrats in coming up with a bill that could pass the Senate with bipartisan support and then we can negotiate from there.

Soledad O'Brien. Madam Speaker, you've specifically expressed that you think, on the issue of chokeholds, Republicans will come around. Why do you feel that optimism when I think ‘nonstarter' is kind of what some of your Republican colleagues have been saying?

Speaker Pelosi. Well, what I have said is – when people say, ‘Can you compromise?' Well, we can't compromise on chokeholds. We ban them. They don't ban them. So what are we going to negotiate, the number of chokeholds that are allowed? No chokeholds.

And the thing is, is their bill has no accountability and we have to have results. This is a moment in our country's history and a moment in the world where people have turned out and said we must make progress.

Soledad O'Brien. Congresswoman Bass, Tim Scott on the Senate side, is trying to come up with a bill that can come out of the Senate. I know you have been talking slash negotiating with him. How have those conversations been going?

Chair Bass. Let me just say there has been one conversation with Senator Scott. There have been numerous conversations with House Republicans.

For us to have something that is symbolic, that actually doesn't have accountability and isn't transformative would really not address the current situation. And so, the fact that they want to keep talking, I view that positively. They have not closed the door completely. And so, we'll see where we get.

Soledad O'Brien. There's areas of common ground, but then it comes down to is it mandated, is it required. Can you navigate that? I mean, Speaker Pelosi's example of how do you navigate the middle space between no chokeholds and, you know, chokeholds but only if you feel like your life is in danger, which is basically what the Senate Republicans have put forth.

Chair Bass. Well, let me give you another example. In – to Senator Scott's bill, when it comes to no knock warrants, which is what led to the death of Breonna Taylor, what he wants to do is document it and study it. But, in fact, no knocks have already been studied.

One of the things I think they might not understand is that we're not calling for the public to have access to a database that shows officers who might have shown up late or to have complaints that haven't been substantiated.

Tamir Rice died. He was killed when he was twelve years old. That police officer had been fired from another department, but the department that hired him was not aware of it. And so the number of people who have been killed because of bad officers bouncing from department to department, I mean, that's not something to really negotiate. We're talking about a substantiated abuse complaints.

Soledad O'Brien. We've actually had this conversation now, right, for many years. What do you think makes this time different that you can get real reform that maybe wasn't possible ten years ago, fifteen years ago?

Speaker Pelosi. The public execution of George Floyd took us across a threshold where there's no turning back. To see, for eight minutes and 46 seconds, what police officers were willing to do to this beautiful man. And, then, when we heard his words on the cam – the body cam – just recently, it just had so much power. It had so much power.

Soledad O'Brien. Congresswoman Bass?

Chair Bass. In the past, even though we'd seen a number of people killed on cell phone camera video, this one was different because you could not dispute what happened. In the past, people would say, ‘Well, we don't know what happened before the camera was turned on and we don't really know who this individual was.'

As the Speaker mentioned, we all watched this and I think the egregious manner in which he was killed was just horrific and it outraged the entire world.

Soledad O'Brien. Madam Speaker, are you optimistic then? I can't tell from this conversation if we're feeling good about actually getting something out of this time that has a lot of public support at this moment or if you're pessimistic because a lot of these conversations sound like people are far apart.

Speaker Pelosi. Well, at this moment I always quote President Lincoln. He said, ‘Public sentiment is everything. With it, you can accomplish almost anything. Without it, practically nothing.' And the public sentiment is there, very much there, to pass this legislation.

And there's no reason for the Republicans not to accept it in the Senate. We need to get this done for the good of the country.

Soledad O'Brien. Thank you both for joining me, Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi and Chairwoman Karen Bass. Thanks guys.

Chair Bass. Thank you.

Speaker Pelosi. Thank you.